Rivals turned friends... a former NA remembers Kevin

Hi Apple
SweetSue02 sent me the link to your site and your email address telling me if I wanted to say anything about Kevin write you at this address. I have minimized my browser to send you some mail so I can go back to reading it once I have finished writing.

What a great site! At first glance it struck me as a traditional anti-AA site, similar to RR's and some others but then I started reading. Was I awestruck. You're not throwing the baby out with the bath water and being totally against the 12 step programs but rather pointing out the shortcomings of what is wrong from your point of view (and others) This information should be a "Must Read" for all individuals in AA/NA and those considering useing them as help. I would like to see it in print handed to every newcomer along with their first copy of the Big Book.

I just finished reading your article on Sexual Predators. It is so on the money. Now on one hand, I am going to have to say that this segment of society is lurking wherever there are vunerable people. They may be the volunteer at your local rape crisis center or abortion clinic, the pastor at the church, the moderator at the day care center, the funeral home agent etc..It isn't a phenomenon particular to recovery meetings but nonetheless, your assesment of this type of predator hits the nail on the head. Some groups are very aware that this type exists. They intone the members..women stay with women, men stay with men. This of course many do not listen to, and the newcomer has absolutely no intention of heeding this advice. (On a quick sidenote those who do heed the advice are probably better off, however predators exist in the homosexual sense as well who just love to see their gender being pushed for help in their direction since this is discussed even less) I could go on for hours about how refreshing your site is but I will tell you a bit about myself instead.

Kevin and I were friends, both on line and in real life. I first met Kevin in the "Life, NA way" chat room under the screename of SwineHater. SwineHater did not speak. He used hacker programs to punt people off line and conduct general mayhem when he was around. It was commonplace to find people come into that chatroom whose sole intention was to rib the 12 steppers and disrupt fun chit chat. I never hung out in that chat room to discuss recovery and steps but rather to take advantage of the fun of chatting with people on line, what a few million other AOL members do, except that I had something in common with this room in that we were all people who used NA to help with our addictions. Kevin (Swine) had a few friends with similar screenames who were also very anti 12 step. S/N's SwineKiller etc..nobody knew anything about these individuals other than when the "swine" were around... shut off your IM's and run for cover. Now I did not particularly like being booted off line, my computer was rather slow and it took me forever to get back on with the limited AOL connections in my area..so I took to learning all about these programs and loading up my aresenal so to speak. The screename Anacondda originally developed as an alter ego..the name that I would change to when the hordes of antis came into the room. I would duck out under my normal screename and change into my cape and return as the trusty savior of the 12 step chat room and we would have cyberspace punting wars.

I enjoyed being the masked avenger and would be lying to say that I didn't enjoy the notoriety that I developed being every bit as dangerous on line as Kevin. This was the point that our relationship changed. I could punt Kevin, and Kevin could punt me, and in time we also had programs that would prevent either of us from being punted by anybody, but I couldn't save the masses who did not understand how all these programs worked or have the same firepower that I did so between Kevin and I there was a stalemate and out of that detante..we began to talk.

It probably took 6 months before I ever knew his name was Kevin..and we would agree that instead of punting each other back and forth..we would retreat to a private room and talk like two human beings. (This made the NA room very happy since I took him away) and Kevin and I would spend hours in private chat talking about why he felt the way he did and what his resentment was towards the on line recovery community. Kevin would invite some of his friends..and we'd all introduce each other and talk. We developed a respect for each other, had some on line treaties so to speak. Kevin would still come to the chat rooms but maintained behavior whenever I was around, and made it clear that he would be good because he had respect for Anacondda. Those were good old days that I wish we could bring back Apple. Kevin would even punt the more obnoxious NA members at my request..the ones I really couldn't stand listening to but did not want to punt myself. We chatted by phone, we exchanged programs with each other, we became friends. I developed a heart condition shortly after. Kevin would call me at home and offer his support if there was anything he could do. He would talk to me on line and support me when I was on the computer. He invited me down to Panama City Beach when I was all fixed up so we could meet in real life. He linked me constantly to all of the websites that had anti 12 step material so that I could get some idea about how he thought and what was wrong with the program.

Before I met Kevin, I did not even have any idea that there was any faction of people who had anything against the 12 steps. I mean, how could anybody be against something that has helped so many people? Where did anybody find anything negative to think about this wonderful program? It was through Kevin that I found information that made me question things that I had heard over the years while in recovery...things that grated against my core but I had just dissmissed rather than discuss.

Although I still remained a member of NA..I found my thinking gradually changing. I no longer thought that court slips should be in NA. I saw how people who ran meetings would tell people with court slips to bring them up after the meeting and they would sign them. I listened to members discuss how they made sure that they did not sign a slip until the end... and if the person walked in during the meeting, they would not sign it at all because the person did not listen to the entire meeting. I changed my behavior ( I was very popular in the area and people wanted me to chair meetings) I would announce at the beginning of a meeting that if anybody had a court slip that needed signing, please bring it up to me right now and I would sign it on the spot. If they wanted to stay, they were welcome and encouraged but I did not want them being forced.

I met with much sidebar chatter from members when I would do that. I never refused to sign a slip... I wouldn't want anybody in trouble with their probation officer or the court... but I made sure that they were not forced to sit through a meeting because the court wanted them to. Many members disagreed. Some did not care how a person found NA as long as they did.

I also became aware of step alternatives..programs that I did not know existed when I came into recovery. I was told that this was the only option... and that I had a disease that required a lifetime of sobriety. I had originally gone to rehab with the mental view that rehab meant I could fix what was wrong with me and perhaps become a normal member of society again and was told that normal was not an option for me. My solution was not to ever take that substance into my body again because something was different about me... I was an alcoholic and would be one until the day I died.

There is so much that I began to question once I had met Kevin. Kevin was convinced that I could drink again and nothing terrible would happen to me. He judged this by our conversations and my thinking. He believed that AA probably did have its place for some people, but those were the ones who could not think for themselves and did not have self discipline to take responsibility for their own actions. I had even questioned if I could drink again. To me, I did not buy into the idea that I had a disease and after many years of abstinence actually was rather convinced that I could drink should I want to... I just saw no reason to change my way of living at this point. I mean, a vegetarian can eat meat if they want to... they just choose a different lifestyle... and so did I.

As time went on, I became less and less involved with the step programs... I attended fewer and fewer meetings. I filled my life up more with family and friends... and doing things that I wanted to do for myself. Friends who were in the program constantly asked me why I was not around as much any more, that meetings needed people like me, I had so many good things to say. The only reason I would go to a meeting any more was to try and keep an eye on the things that were being told to newcomers... they started to make me sick. Almost every meeting I would attend I would have to put my hand up and share recovery as Chuck sees it and directly contradict some of the things I heard shared before me.

People began to know that things were not going over well with me and it would be just a matter of time before I threw my 2 cents in. Some liked the way I thought. Many others did not. After a while the meetins were getting split into opposing camps... those who liked my outlook on recovery and those guru's who hated seeing me in the meeting at all.

In the spring of 1998 I was with Kevin and Sue in Panama City Beach, all of us went to a resturaunt with Kevin's mother. While there the waitress brought a bottle of wine to the table with 4 glasses and said.."a taste of wine for the table?" My immediate reaction was going to be "none for me thank you" but I did not see any reason why I could not enjoy a couple of glasses of wine with my friends over dinner. I guess this was going to be the moment of truth for me. If I did this and those AA people were right, I was going to wind up back in the meetings with my tail between my legs and eat humble pie..worse yet I would lose my "time" status as somebody who had been clean for "13 years" and had to start all over again. I would never be able to claim 13 years of recovery to back up my views on life and recovery again. If I ever said I had 13 years at one time..somebody would say..that's correct..you HAD 13 years... now maybe you ought to shut up and listen. I took the chance. I had 2 glasses with everybody else. Dinner was wonderful, the sky did not open and lightning did not jolt me.

We dropped Kevin's mom off after dinner and went out clubbing for the rest of the night. I did not have the desire to drink any more that evening, I switched to soda and still had a great time. I have not been back to a meeting since. The terrible progression that was supposed to happen has not taken place. I still enjoy a couple of glasses of wine with certain meals and have a few beers with friends that drink as well. I don't like being drunk, and have not been drunk since this experiement began. There are no episodes of black out drinking, I don't keep a quantity of liquor on hand in my house, I drink it when I do... and don't worry about it when I don't. Nobody ever shuts me off at a bar, I do that myself. I don't get carried away wondering how did that happen. I know I have a limit and when I am getting close and will not go past that point since whatever I used to experience when I drank does not happen to me any more. Why?? Good question.

I really don't know what happened to change the way I drink today from what I used to drink like so many years ago when I sought help. Maybe I grew up, maybe the years of abstinence helped me learn how to cope with situations by myself without the need for intoxicants to hide behind. What I do know is that the "disease" module is flawed. Telling people they can never drink again is a sham, and indoctinating failure into their heads becomes a self fullfilling prophecy.\

Kevin is not with us anymore and I miss him a great deal. I did not like the way Kevin got his point accross sometimes. He had the tools to make as much impact on recovery as Bill Wilson did in starting AA. So much potential and so little time. His candle ended way too early Apple. So that's my story. Punctuation and paragraph structure have never been my strong points.