Kudos

to you on your great site. I'm a former AA member, not quite as negative about AA as some of your readers seem to be, but I think it's great you are providing a view of the dark side of the program. Somebody put it that AA is "a better place to get sober than to stay sober," and I agree, which is why I quit going to meetings.

I particularly agree that women, people who were abused as children, and people with low self-esteem/depression/assertiveness issues are ill-served by the program's relentless emphasis on "ego deflation." After a while I found that AA was making my depression worse, so I quit going (not without an internal struggle against the "you'll-drink-again police"!)

I do know people whom AA has helped, but I think people should make an informed decision about whether it is for them, and what its downsides can be. Your site contributes to that process.

You can print this letter in your Mail section if you like, but please sign me...

Anonymous

Free at Last From AA's Thought Loop

I guess I could sum up my problem with alcohol as always wanting more once I start drinking. I related to others who said the same thing when I first went to AA in 1990. Over the past few months, through sharing with other former AA members, I've felt much the same way in realizing that I am not alone in my ten-year-long maddening experience with AA. I don't want to inflate the egos of former AA members (that is meant to be AA sarcasm!) but some of the essays at your site are the best written, heart felt insights to the real AA experience I've found.

I went through the downward spiral of continuing to fall back into AA as I relapsed for 8 years in AA of not drinking. The insanity for me is that throughout those 8 years, as I continued to plunge further into self loathing, self doubt, and total confusion, I continued to try to maintain an attitude of gratitude towards AA because I was convinced that AA was: the only known treatment for alcoholism -- the most successful program for alcoholics worldwide -- the last house on the left; and the miracle of the 21st century. I used to speak at meetings and tell everyone how I was grateful to have AA to come back to since without AA I would be doomed. Finally, 9 months ago I realized I would continue to be doomed until I got out of AA.

The first glimpse I had of the real world came when I took off my heavily tinted AA glasses in November 1999 and looked at the Rational Recovery web site. I immediately felt like AA had duped me into believing that AA contained the ultimate truth of alcoholism. I felt like the character in the movie "The Truman Show" when he realizes he has been living in a completely artificial world filled with characters that make sure that the unity of this fake little world isn't threatened.

They say in AA that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. I went back to AA over and over again for 8 years desperately hoping for different results. I think I know why. You can't beat AA once you're in. Even my continued drinking seemed to confirm to the AAers that AA did indeed work. The AAers could just quote to me any of the hundreds of reasons in the Big Book that explain why some people can't stay sober. I never was able to convey the thought to anyone in AA that their Program didn't work for me, let alone believe it myself until very recently. AAers also pointed out that AA did work because I kept going back for more! It was one long, vicious cycle of guilt trips followed by false hope. They promoted the idea of perfection not progress to explain my failures with AA. Then they would state that AA was a program of progress not perfection to keep me coming back for more.

For so long I developed awful beliefs about my addiction and myself. No one in AA ever suggested that I might find help elsewhere. The quotes from the Big Book and personal stories described essentially one idea to me: AA never fails -- it is the individual who fails AA. Those who say that AA doesn't work for them are people who really don't work the Program. Worse, was the idea they drilled into my head that I shared the similarities and therefore a huge set of similar characteristics and even experiences as everyone else in AA. The sickening, unmentionable things I heard other say were simply AA's YETs (you're eligible too) that I simply hadn't done because of the Grace of God. In AA I came to believe that I suffered from terminal uniqueness and I learned to not take any credit or satisfaction in what I used to consider my positive traits. In AA, my creativity and freethinking became ego and false pride, both of which would continue to get me drunk. I came to question my motivations and intentions for everything I did or thought. After nearly ten years in AA I was truly a shell of a person.

It has not been easy to let go of all the negative beliefs. The saying in AA "take what you need and leave the rest" is completely hollow in my experience. Years of failure at sobriety accompanied by constant reminders that I was to blame and not AA led to some deeply ingrained beliefs in my conscious and subconscious.

Just knowing that there were other alternatives to AA was not enough. Without a dramatic shift from self-doubt to one of self-trust I would not have been able to find what works for me to stay sober. It has been the personal testimonies at your site and others that have led me out of the AA abyss to a place of personal responsibility and personal empowerment to overcome my own addiction. I'm writing this because I feel I was wildly misled in AA and diverted from finding a true solution for me. I wish to express to you my personal confirmation that your site is saving many people from the clutches of AA.

C.

Finding Her Own Path Equals Failing The Aftercare Program!

I can't tell you how relieved I am to find this site! I am currently facing a dilemma with the parole system in MN. I need advice on how to face them with pride and conviction. I discontinued my court ordered aftercare program because I didn't feel comfortable being among hard core drug dealers and addicts. I was sent to treatment as punishment for a DWI.

I had a fight with my boyfriend of 11 years, as we were going to through a painful break-up. I could no longer deal with his abuse and my self-esteem was zero. I left his place in a huff, not thinking about the hazards of driving until I turned the corner pulled over and started to walk home. I drove less than a block, honestly. A neighbor in the area questioned my condition and called the police and I was arrested as I walked down the street. I felt this to be an isolated incident and don't feel I can identify with the concept of alcoholism as a disease and the powerless 12 step crap. I went to primary care as an outpatient, but more importantly began my own spiritual journey of different healing methods. I did my time but got the real work done myself. I tried aftercare but couldn't bear it. I have attended cognitive therapy and counseling on my own as well as a lot of self help and spiritual reading, awakening the Buddah within, "Seat of the Soul" to mention a few books.

I tried to explain these things to my parole officer and all she could say is that I failed my aftercare program. Ha! I think that being made to join a 12 step program is like being forced to join a religion. I strongly feel that it violates my rights in some way or other. I am now told I must surrender myself to the police department and most likely await a hearing while I am in jail. Now that's good for the healing process! I am trying to get my lawyer to help but he is a 12 stepper and all he said was "When did you have your last drink? When was your last meeting?" I am getting really angry. I am not drinking. I am in my last semester at school and embarking on a career in media production. I have never been more healthy or proud of myself. This crap is testing my self esteem, though... I am tired of being shamed.

If you have any advice or some kind of chat line I would love to hear about it. Thanks for standing up for the alternatives

TmediaTes@netscape.net

What the Steps Brought Me

As a former member of AA, I would like to thank you for your website and for the help you must surely be giving to those who are seeking answers to their many questions about AA and its effectiveness or lack thereof in their lives.

I would never have gone twice to an AA meeting if I had the information on abstinence that I have today. I'm not sure that I would have gone even once.......

Step One hurt me tremendously in that I felt powerless even befoe I started drinking and only confirmed what I was instrinsically terrified of to start with...I was worthless as a going concern.

Step Two was likewise dismal in that it told me I was insane and had to rely on authorities higher than my own mind to become functional.

Step Three was incomprehensible to me in that anything outside of myself would prove to have more power than my own reasoning. (I was never stupid. If I had been, the Program would have worked like a charm)

Step Four was a method for me to totally doubt myself and my motives for all my actions from the time I was born to the present.

Step Five guaranteed me total debasement before another human and a "god" I didn't have much respect for to start with.

Step Six placed me in a state of complete surrender to my inability to be a moral person on my own recognizance.

Step Seven was my commitment to such aforesaid humiliaton.

Step Eight kept me busy because most people I had hurt had harmed me first in very invasive and uncaring ways.

Step Nine left me looking like a jerk. My abusers had absolutely nothing to say....

Step Ten kept me from enjoying many moments bcause I was always examining my motives.

Step Eleven was incomprehensible to me, and to the very end of my trip with AA I wasn't able to figure it out.

Step Twelve was meaningless to me in the first part, practiced in the second part, and belabored in the third part.

Interestingly enough, I was never told how to quit drinking.......

For the criminally minded, child and wife beaters and abusers, sexual predators, etc., I think the steps are a good thing......for those of us who have been victims most of our lives, I think the way to go is thru self-empowerment not debasement.

I finally left AA after many years. I can't say I'm grateful to the program but I can say that I'm proud I had the sheer guts not to drink all those years in spite of the program.

I also can state that AA really never gave me peace of mind. I found that on my own., through education, exploration of the world around me, and following my own conscience in raising my children. Remarkably, I never listened to all the advice I got from parents who were at meetings all the time instead of fulfilling responsibilties at home and for that I am grateful.

I like many of the folks I met in AA. I don't like the program. I don't like it bcause it is very dishonest in its premise of not being religious. I don't like it because it is not logical in that it calls "alcoholism" a disease and that treatment is moral improvement and faith. I don't like it bcause it denies people the right to think freely. I don't like it because it labels people as morally degenerate, weak-willed and defective. I don't like it because it sends the message of insanity, death or incarceration to those who cannot or will not accept the "program".

Of course, I quit drinking for ever and am not suffering from "alcoholism" so what could I possibly know about it?

Tinquerbelle@webtv.net

AA Deprogramming... the Devil's Work or Shiny Fabric? -- You Decide!

To whom it may concern.
Let me quess. You don't believe in god, you refuse to take responsibly for your actions. You cant and wont get honest. You inteleulize everything. Tell me how is your life going today? Are you part of the problem or the solution? Please give me specific examples of how your life has improved as a result of following the ideologies promoted on this satin infested web page.

(NOTE: for purposes of amusement, the above letter has not been retouched
-- Apple of AAdeprogramming)

An AA member writes: "I'm Out!"

Good site. A.A. is a study in vicious hypocrisy. It drove me to drink more than ever. Walked out and never went back. The mumbo jumbo, Christian rantings, the silent treatment given to "heretics", the pilgrimages to St. Bob, that Lord's Prayer palaver -- right out of the Dark Ages. What rot! Saw Jews and Orientals being castigated until they memorized that dumb prayer that doesn't work. I can laugh at those fools now but at the time [five years ago] it wasn't funny. It was disgusting. Everyone in that outfit was a goddamned liar; they tried to hit me up for money for their personal use; lied to prospective converts about the benefits [so called] of joining a group of nauseating half wits, crusaders, zealots, fanatics and the just plain stupid. Monumentally arrogant. Ignorance Worshipers. The entire racket stank to high heaven. Pervert "sponsors" used their KKK-like powers to seduce naive young women and bragged about it. Foetid cult. Pathetic.

Cordially,

Allen Ross Warmington,
South Euclid, OH

If you want to use the above publicly, feel free to do so. Doesn't bother me but it sure does bother the high priests who run that sham.

Don't Go Down With the Lifeboat!

Hi, Apple!

Found your site last week and have enjoyed it immensely. Three cheers to you for calling AA what it is -- bad medicine for sick people. By infiltrating the social services sector, AA and its "faithful" following have provided themselves a career opportunity for the foolish who advocate the disease theory of alcoholism. AAers, and the addiction treatment industry in general, has tapped into the rivers of tax dollars by hiding behind a mask of anonymity. This disease mentality isn't going away any time soon, there's too much money involved in treating the addicts, drunks, their families, their children, their friends, and their employers. By taking advantage of a trusting public, the treatment industry has become a billion(s) dollar travesty!! Jim Jones must be laughing his ass off!

I left a little over a year ago, and am happy to be free again, to choose life over the program and get on with it. I didn't feel right in AA, but hell, I did the steps, got a sponsor, and put up with the maddening slogan therapy and pathological mantras of the salivating fools that posed as good AAers. Man, I used to say I've heard and seen it all, but NOW I have!

I started going to the local AAshram, and found it to be no more than a crisis intervention center. Hey, I had my share of serious problems from drinking, but to think I had sunk so low... what a nightmare! Between the convicted felons, the personality disorders, the 13-th stepping pigs swarming around the "fresh meat", the absolutely nonsensical "answers" provided by the Big Book (as regurgitated by the "faithful")...my head was spinning! I watched the predators say things like let go and let God. I am sorry, but my God has more important things to do than keeping me from destroying my life with booze. I was nothing more than a selfish drunk, and it was high time I grew up and became the man that everyone, including me, knew I could be.

I thank AA for one thing...jolting me back to REALITY. If a lifetime of nauseating meetings and dysfunctional new "friends" was all I had to look forward to, one depressing day at a time, then I was a major failure as a human being. God has given me so many blessings...a great family, dear friends, a brain, and a great appreciation for love and compassion. Fortunately, I realized that the Big Lie that is AA, deserves nothing but scorn and contempt. The AA nazis told me to forget all that I had learned and distance myself from everyone and everything except AA. I kept saying no, these were the good things in my life! When my sponsor suggested that I was in denial about being abused as a child, that my family and friends were diseased enablers, I was in shock. These people didn't have a f*cking clue about my life or much else. AA a cult?...you're damn right it is!

My advice, from the heart, to folks deciding to get off the rollercoaster is to take great care with AA involvement. There are other options, including AVRT and Rational Recovery, which has worked wonders for myself and others. Remember that misery loves company, and AA will attempt to destroy your will to do much of anything, except stay within the sick confines of AA. Have faith in yourself, your God, and your strength to walk out the door forever. Jails, institutions or death...sorry, folks, I ain't buying it. I quit for life and I'm never going back! There's just too much to live for.

Like you said, Apple, complete honesty. AA is a proverbial black hole, and it's time someone spoke up.

Warm regards, and thanks for giving much needed hope!